Hi all, Just a reminder that we are having a Special IPS Project Team / Australian Patient Summary Joint Call next week. Tue 29 Oct 2025 17:00 EST / 22:00 CET / Wed 29 07:00 AEST (Brisbane) / 08:00 AEDT (Sydney) Conference call link is the same as weekly calls, see https://confluence.hl7.org/spaces/PC/pages/391647902/IPS+2025-10-28 . Agenda: No known medications No known immunizations & No known procedures Populate and handle Obligations for Must Support elements with multiple cardinality Does IPS IG recommend how IPS documents are accessed (if time permits) To provide some context of these items, we are in the middle of our AU PS draft for comment reconciliation and these are a few topics that we have some feedback on that we would like to get some wider insights on. Note that this is a special meeting and the regular weekly meeting will also be held on Wed Oct 29 09:00 EST.

Thanks Heath for the reminder! As a small update, I've just updated the Confluence Zoom meeting coordinates to align with the HL7 event. For those who have the IPS normal meeting memorized, please note that this special call will be on a different Zoom account. The meeting details are both in Confluence and on the HL7 calendar.

Thanks for fixing that

Thank you all to those that attended today's call. I felt it was a really good conversation and opportunity to get on the same page. Although we don't all necessarily agree on a solution, at least I think we all understand the problem space. I look forward to continuing these discussions and making progress.

Apologies for Zoom Bombing :slight_smile: the AUPS/IPS collab call and yes, it's attendance from Finland although only in "unofficial capacity". FWIW I'm seeing this work and discussions greatly benefitting near-future European patient summary related development within EHDS realm. Big Thumbs Up from me.

Kari Heinonen said : Apologies for Zoom Bombing :slight_smile: the AUPS/IPS collab call... It was great to see you there. Zoom bomb again!

Thank you, I intent to, I think - but I'm also quite profoundly confused when/whether next bespoke AUPS/IPS collab call is scheduled ... recent changes to changes to changes and timezones from both side of intl.dateline make my head spin :face_with_spiral_eyes:

This week we have an IPS Project call scheduled on Tuesday at 5:00 PM EST, which is the one intended to be at a reasonable time for AU/NZ (not too great for Europe - midnight for Finland), and then we will also have the Wednesday call at 9:00 AM EST (at a much better time for Europe). After this week we will alternate the Tuesday and Wednesday calls every other week, having the Tuesday call next week (Nov 25). All of the calls are listed on the HL7 Conference Call calendar (under the Patient Care WG). The Zoom meeting for both the Tues and Wed calls going forward is https://us02web.zoom.us/j/89197612486?pwd=elBROGxwblNXa0hOdFhOc0VxOHZpUT09 . Hopefully this will help clear up any confusion.

I'll also try changing the topic for this discussion so it will be more obvious and easier to find as people are looking for the information for our future IPS calls.

Thanks @Rob Hausam I would like the following on the agenda please: FHIR-52278 Clarify guidance on representing no known medications Continue topic from 28 Oct call, including updates from AU and Pharmacy call FHIR-53260 Clarify prohibition of entered-in-error on status elements FHIR-53171 Clarify medication[x] element definition wording in MedicationRequest (IPS) and MedicationStatement (IPS)

Do you want me to create the call page?

I'm happy to put those topics on the agenda, Heath. That's a good question about creating and managing the agenda/minutes page in Confluence. I was thinking that I would do it, the same as I did for last week (when you weren't able to attend). But it doesn't really matter who handles the pages and how we run the calls, as long as we are coordinated and generally consistent with it.

OK, leave it to you, but happy to help out.

Thanks @Rob Hausam for running and documenting the IPS call on Tue (US)/Wed (AU), I think we came to a good conclusion on No known medications with some actions to move forward with. For next week's call Nov-25 (5PM EST), can I ask to have the following on the agenda: FHIR-53260 Clarify prohibition of entered-in-error on status elements FHIR-53171 Clarify medication[x] element definition wording in MedicationRequest (IPS) and MedicationStatement (IPS) FHIR-53114 Populate/handle Obligations for elements with multiple cardinality As mentioned, the following fortnight (Tue Dec-9) we have an HL7 AU FHIR Connectathon opening at the very time of the IPS call. Perhaps so we don't loose momentum, can I suggest we bring the meeting forward to 4PM EST? This would give me and others an opportunity to attend the call and rush to the Connectathon opening.

Apologies for missing the calls yesterday and today - long and complicated travels back to Oregon - having just arrived back at my desk at this moment

@Heath Frankel I will include those items on the agenda for Nov 25/26. And I am fine with moving the call time on Dec 9 up an hour to 4:00 PM EST - that time works for me. But I'm not sure how it is for the rest of our group, so everyone please let me know if you see any issues with making this time change on Dec 9. If I don't hear of anything significant by the end of Monday (since we're getting into the weekend now) then I can go ahead and make that change on the calendar.

We could probably wait until Tuesday afternoon to confirm the time change.

@Rob Hausam Todays call in https://confluence.hl7.org/spaces/PC/pages/413041362/IPS+2025-12-03 has wrong time, maybe ?

Yes, I hadn't edited that yet. :slight_smile: It's correct now.

Hi @Rob Hausam , @John D'Amore and @Gay Dolin . Just confirm my preferred agenda item for this weeks IPS Call (Dec 9 4PM EST / Dec 10 8AM AEST): FHIR-53114 Populate/handle Obligations for elements with multiple cardinality As indicated, I have a presentation that I would like to run through to provide some context of the issue. I also see there is resolution for FHIR-53260 Clarify prohibition of entered-in-error on status element and some commentary on FHIR-53171 Clarify medication[x] element definition wording in MedicationRequest (IPS) and MedicationStatement (IPS) from last week's call that might be worth quickly reviewing. I also note the point about decision making processes, which I think needs to be discussed at some point, but I my main topic is likely to take a bit of time to work through, so perhaps if we can do that first and then come back to review last meeting in the last 5-10 minutes?

Hi @Rob Hausam , @John D'Amore and @Gay Dolin , Based on the action from the IPS call on Dec 9/10, Danielle and I have prepared some proposed guidance on the topic of Populate/handle Obligations for elements with multiple cardinality. I hope we can continue this discussion and present the proposal in this week's IPS Call.

BTW, I created https://jira.hl7.org/browse/FHIR-53720 to track this item for IPS

The agenda/minutes Confluence page for the call 12-23/12-24 call later today/tomorrow has been created. Please go ahead and make any further edits as needed. @Heath Frankel @Danielle Tavares-Rixon @Gay Dolin

The meeting summary and the recording and chat transcript for the Tues/Wed Dec 23/24 call have now been added on the minutes Confluence page . Apologies for the delay in doing that - I've been taking advantage of the holiday time (and hopefully you have, too). :slight_smile:

The slides from today's IPS call on Must Support Obligations for Elements with Multiple Cardinality have been uploaded to the minutes page .

thanks Heath!

The AI meeting summary from the Jan 6/7 meeting has been posted. And the recordings will be there shortly.

Hi Rob, I would like to put two items on this week's IPS call agenda: Update on No known medications code Continue the Populate/handle Obligations for elements with multiple cardinality topic, in particular review the feedback we have received from the FHIR Infrastructure group and propose a change request for a new "populate if relevant" obligation code.

That sounds good, Heath. Those are the 2 main topics that I was wanting to (continue to) cover. I didn't join FHIR-I today (Monday my time) - I usually try to, but I missed this one. Did you discuss the obligations then (I can review the notes)?

I didn't attend that call. I noted a message from Gay on this topic a week or so ago, which Lloyd responded too, but I can't find the forum this was on. Have you or @Gay Dolin got a pointer to this? I have seen Lloyd's comments on my Confluence page , but I thought there was another channel as well.

Let me check.

I just (re)sent the email thread to you.

ahh, email ... I knew I saw it somewhere.

yes - old fashioned email ;-) - trying to arrange a time to discuss with FHIR-I at the WGM - which seems could be Monday Q4. This email should be at the top of you inbox (right now) as a replied to James about his stand-ins attendance (and sked about you two). But perhaps our discussion today, based on the Obligations Extension Lloyd mentioned answered the questions

Hi @Rob Hausam and @Gay Dolin I am hoping we can get a summary of the resolutions of the Obligations on elements with multiple cardinality issues FHIR-55396 and FHIR-55398 out of last week's HL7 WG Meeting. It would be good to get some narrative that describes this understanding in the context of IPS to include in the IPS IG. It would also be good to go through a full list of IPS Profile elements with multiple cardinality and see if we can get agreement on whether each element has a SHALL:populate-if-known obligation of 'all', 'at least 1', or use case specific 'context' (e.g. in a summary record we provide only the latest reaction, not a full history of reactions). I have got a list we can go through with a suggested applicable-number value if it it may be based on some use case context to help us get started.

Hi Heath. Thats sounds good. FYI - I added some text in comments to suggest the actual text to add. (based on the resolution, cryptic FHIR-I notes, and recall). It also presents kind of a summary and I hope will help clarify the final discussions around the topic from the quarter you could not attend. I tagged the main FHIR-I conversation participants, so lets see what comments they make.

Hi @Rob Hausam , @Gay Dolin and anyone else interested, I have updated the Must Support and Obligations for elements with multiple cardinality page with a quick update of progress from last week's WGM and this week's call. I also include a table based on the spreadsheet I presented in the call for comment. I included a couple of columns that references these multiple cardinality elements back to the ISO 27269:2021 standard with some usage context notes from the standard. It would be great if you can have a look, think about, and comment on what the minimal populate expectations we can state without overcomplicating obligations with usage context. I am hoping this is possible given that the summarisation of the document content is performed prior to applying the obligation rules as per what I understood from the Jira resolutions provided by FHIR-I last week. Perhaps we can catch up on another call in the next week so that we can progress this further without having to wait another fortnight.

That sounds good, Heath. I am definitely open to finding a time next week to further progress this.

I will have a look. The only day I could meet next week is Monday as I will be at the ONC/ASTP Annual Meeting next week (Or travelling to/from (across the whole country!))

@Rob Hausam Would Monday 5PM your time suit you (to fit in with Gay's travels)?

It looks like that time on Monday (5:00 PM Central/6:00 PM Eastern) should be able to work for me, @Heath Frankel .

Rob Hausam said : It looks like that time on Monday (5:00 PM Central/6:00 PM Eastern) should be able to work for me, Heath Frankel . So that's one hour later than the usual scheduled AU/NZ/Americas/All Call time, correct ?

That how I read this, @Kari Heinonen . Do we this on the usual Zoom meeting ID @Rob Hausam

That's correct, @Kari Heinonen and @Heath Frankel . I think it is simplest to use the usual Zoom meeting details (mine), so let's go with that. I will put something on the calendar for it (an automatic reminder will not be sent).

Here is the link to the AI meeting summary transcript from the 6:00 PM ET "IPS mustSupport/Obligations for multiple cardinality elements" call today. Let me know if there is any trouble accessing the summary. We don't have a specific minutes page for the call in Confluence - but we can find a different and more permanent location for the summary if we want to to that.

Hi @Rob Hausam in today's call we would like to provide an update from the AU PS perspective on No known medications and the Must support obligations for elements with multiple cardinality. I think Danielle is also keen to do a quick overview of AU PS if there is time to elicit some international feedback on our ballot that is currently open.